Curse

High Moral · Jul 09, 2008, 02:25 AM // 02:25

In risk of this post getting deleted when I write long, I will first ask.
Where is the right forum to discuss PvP Monking? I have some question, suggestions etc etc. I have been monking in PvP for a long time but would like to throw some ideas around.

This is RA and AB and not "REAL" pvp as the elitist would say. Anyway..

Can I do that here? If the answer is yes I will start with the next post.

Sorry for this.

/High Moral

jiggles · Jul 09, 2008, 02:30 AM // 02:30

Your in teh right place. Now get posting

High Moral · Jul 09, 2008, 02:48 AM // 02:48

Im not a big poster, so I actually dont know how to put in the skills in pictures, but if someone would explain later I will change it.

I have played the game alot, and I have been told that I play my monk very well and made a lot of friends that way. But I always want to improve, always get a little bit better. One thing i have NOT tried yet is to "bond" in AB. I seen monk do it, but how effective is it really? So many enchantment removals and
what not, would make it hard? Bad?

I am currently running a pretty basic build in both AB and RA and I almost happy with it, currently.

WoH, RoF, Patient Spirit, Guardian, Dismiss Conditions, Holy Vail, Return, Dash.

I want more protect in it, its to much bar go up! So ofcourse my first thought was to remove Guardian (Which I somehow grown to like less and less, and it seems less and less useful. Its only fun to cast it on someone when a assassin shadowsteps in and it screws up his spike totaly).

But change Guardian for SoA? Would it be advisable? What about shielding hands? And I read SoA and Shielding hands but seriously, and this might sound stupid. WTF is the difference? SoA reduces damage taken by 5 and Shielding hands by 14?

And Spirit bond? Thats good, should i Pump that in?

There are just not enough slots!

So, I know guardian is good, maybe its just me. So I should not remove it, but then what? Conditions is a pain in AB, but there are so many of them so hardly dismiss condition makes a difference, you remove 1 and they got 1232 more on them.

Holy Vail, I mean ofcourse its awesome to remove the hexes but seriously, they never call there hexes, and pre Holy Vailing in AB seems alot of time as a waste, because there are just to many hexes flying around. The first hex is almost always the big one, and I remove the enchant, but since My since I lack protection spells it feels like the others drop two much in hitpoint at the same time i remove his hexes. And If not so, I will have to remove the holy vail enchantments because mana is running low.

Please note, that I am talking about monking the hardest there is to monk, a group full of random people in AB acting like idiots! Thats the challenge, a well played groups is easy.

So Conclusion?

Should I remove holy vail? Or use it only on myself for migrain and other bad bad things? Or should I just hope I dont get them, and If I do, survive thru them? And on that spot put some Protection?

I know Patient spirit and Guardian works well together, and to be honest with you Im not 100% sure of the RoF either, Iknow its AWESOME but still. WoH in AB and RA is good, it really is.

Owell, here I am ranting on and I havent even started talking about RA yet. But almost the same thing applies to it.

Should dismiss conditions be removed to Purge? Even the recast is so long, it removes ALL conditions.

WoH, Patient Spirit, Spirit Bond, Guardian, Soa, Dismiss, Return, Dash.
WoH, RoF, Patient, Guardian, SoS, Hex Removal, return, dash..

I find return is very nice when you have warriors on your ass. And since people spread out so much Dash is nice.

Thoughts? Comments? Solution?

uther argas · Jul 09, 2008, 02:55 AM // 02:55

First of all dont remove guardian, its the best prot skill in the game.

Second, patient spirit and RoF do basically the same thing ( quick cast heal) i use patient spirit instead of Rof, if you want more prot switcth it for Rof

High Moral · Jul 09, 2008, 02:57 AM // 02:57

Well not the same thing, RoF neglects damage. But I see your point, I am currently using both as you can see.

Tearz1993 · Jul 09, 2008, 03:19 AM // 03:19

Run Dark Escape over Dash... That way you have a speed boost for moving around and it's not completely useless when fighting.

Also, if you want to get better at monking, don't worry so much about your skills and worry more about switching weapon sets for every cast. At first it will be difficult, but you'll improve fast and soon you'll find yourself improving as a monk all-around.

By the way you aren't in the right place... should be Gladiator's Arena because a lot of the people here won't necessarily post the best info for PvP...

theonetheonlybruce · Jul 09, 2008, 03:48 AM // 03:48

to add skill just do [skillname]

Brimstonez · Jul 09, 2008, 04:10 AM // 04:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by uther argas

First of all dont remove guardian, its the best prot skill in the game.

*cough* Distortion. Unless you mean just Protection as in Monk Skill

JDRyder · Jul 09, 2008, 04:45 AM // 04:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by High Moral

Im not a big poster, so I actually dont know how to put in the skills in pictures, but if someone would explain later I will change it.

I have played the game alot, and I have been told that I play my monk very well and made a lot of friends that way. But I always want to improve, always get a little bit better. One thing i have NOT tried yet is to "bond" in AB. I seen monk do it, but how effective is it really? So many enchantment removals and
what not, would make it hard? Bad?

bonders suck to much to keep up in a place like AB, maybe in RA but there are better builds.

Quote:

Originally Posted by High Moral

I am currently running a pretty basic build in both AB and RA and I almost happy with it, currently.

WoH, RoF, Patient Spirit, Guardian, Dismiss Conditions, Holy Vail, Return, Dash.

take out dash, add in Prot spirit. return is fine may want to try some other skills like shield bash and hex breaker if you have not alrdy. Also take out Patient spirit for SoA see if you like that. If you need more healing then Woh your team need to fall back or you need to prot better

Quote:

Originally Posted by High Moral

I want more protect in it, its to much bar go up! So ofcourse my first thought was to remove Guardian (Which I somehow grown to like less and less, and it seems less and less useful. Its only fun to cast it on someone when a assassin shadowsteps in and it screws up his spike totaly).

But change Guardian for SoA? Would it be advisable? What about shielding hands? And I read SoA and Shielding hands but seriously, and this might sound stupid. WTF is the difference? SoA reduces damage taken by 5 and Shielding hands by 14?

Guardian is really useful keep it, its just a matter of taking your eyes off the bars and on to the battle, you will find you self using it a lot.

SoA>shielding hands. SoA reduces by 5 every time your hit, so you get hit 5 times and you have -25 damage and a lot of times you use SoA you or your ally will be getting hit a lot more then only 5 times "more like 30+ a lot of times" so he will take 0 damage for like 7 secs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by High Moral

And Spirit bond? Thats good, should i Pump that in?

I like Prot spirit better cause you can maintain it on your self and that means your in god mode.

Quote:

Originally Posted by High Moral

There are just not enough slots!

yes there is but a lot of people use to many skills for healing. Imo any more then 1 healing skill is to much if you have woh :P

Quote:

Originally Posted by High Moral

So, I know guardian is good, maybe its just me. So I should not remove it, but then what? Conditions is a pain in AB, but there are so many of them so hardly dismiss condition makes a difference, you remove 1 and they got 1232 more on them.

guardian is a must in AB/RA/TA. Dismiss is all you need just try to remove blind/weakness off melee dazed off casters and Deep wound off every 1.

Quote:

Originally Posted by High Moral

Holy Vail, I mean ofcourse its awesome to remove the hexes but seriously, they never call there hexes, and pre Holy Vailing in AB seems alot of time as a waste, because there are just to many hexes flying around. The first hex is almost always the big one, and I remove the enchant, but since My since I lack protection spells it feels like the others drop two much in hitpoint at the same time i remove his hexes. And If not so, I will have to remove the holy vail enchantments because mana is running low.

the big hex 1st is the point of pre veiling so the cover hex is not removed. if energy is slowing you down, you may not be prot well or maybe over proting/healing in AB/RA/TA im able to keep at least 1 person pre veiled at a time. Sounds like your looking at the Bars and not the battle again. use the right prot 1st so you dont wast energy later on woh and/or a 2nd prot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by High Moral

Please note, that I am talking about monking the hardest there is to monk, ahat group full of random people in AB acting like idiots! Ts the challenge, a well played groups is easy.

So Conclusion?

Should I remove holy vail? Or use it only on myself for migrain and other bad bad things? Or should I just hope I dont get them, and If I do, survive thru them? And on that spot put some Protection?

keep veil your not super monk man, you can only do so much some times you will get hexes, just have to try to keep it from happening.

Quote:

Originally Posted by High Moral

I know Patient spirit and Guardian works well together, and to be honest with you Im not 100% sure of the RoF either, Iknow its AWESOME but still. WoH in AB and RA is good, it really is.

Rof is not a heal as so many people say it is in pve. Rof is that 1/4sec cast that gives you time to cast woh, guardian or SoA so they dont die before you get to cast that 1 sec cast spell. In a group of "idiots" you just called them rof is what saving them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by High Moral

Owell, here I am ranting on and I havent even started talking about RA yet. But almost the same thing applies to it.

Should dismiss conditions be removed to Purge? Even the recast is so long, it removes ALL conditions.

WoH, Patient Spirit, Spirit Bond, Guardian, Soa, Dismiss, Return, Dash.
WoH, RoF, Patient, Guardian, SoS, Hex Removal, return, dash..

I find return is very nice when you have warriors on your ass. And since people spread out so much Dash is nice.

no keep dismiss

use this
[build=OwcT04XCzRjMTEI1DB2mumcXBA] or [build=OwcU04XCz/MakZiApeIw201kGIA]

dash suck on monk imo and its not as useful as dark escape or SoA, don't bust your A** to save people on their own in AB and if your in RA then they are noob and they need to come back not u

I take it you have all the weps you need if not read this

Lets start with a Build
[Word of healing][reversal of fortune][guardian][protective spirit][glyph of lesser energy][dismiss condition][holy veil][shield of absorption]
this is what a lot of people use and a good build to show what weapons to use when

40/40 Healing set

Prot Enchant Staff

high set

low set

If you want to be uber leet, always stay on your low set "with out forgetting to change shields to w/e your getting hit by" when you are not doing any thing. If your to lazy to do all that weapon swapping The Prot Staff is fine and move to the shield set when your getting hit. Move to your high set if you need energy and then back to shield set when your not casting and then back to the high set when you want to cast. As soon as you dig in to that high sets energy there's no turning back you will have to do a lot of weapon swapping and if your team cant kill them fast, you will have 0 energy on your high set and then you just a leecher at that point cause it will be hard to get energy back to the point that you cant do any thing. In GvG/PvP people only use the high set at VoDs, Fall backs and pushes due to how its balls to the wall after you use it, but it can save your team from wipes.

Here what is works best for all the skills

[Word of healing] 40/40 healing set
[reversal of fortune] Prot Enchant staff
[guardian] Prot Enchant staff
[protective spirit] Prot Enchant staff
[glyph of lesser energy] does not matter
[dismiss condition] Prot Enchant staff
[holy veil] Prot Enchant staff
[shield of absorption] Prot Enchant staff

Just about every healing skill works best with the 40/40 healing set. Some healing skills like [healing hands][spotless soul][spotless mind][vigorous spirit][healing seed][dwayna's sorrow] work well on both, the 40/40 and the Prot staff cause they are enchantments and its up to to pick of you want the faster cast/recharge or make it last 20% longer

Every Prot enchantment works the best with the Prot staff, if it not a enchantment it still works but only 1/2 as well next to a 40/40 prot set but most people dont use it unless they are playing ZB monk

as for skills like holy veil the prot staff is good cause you get a 20% recharge of all skills with it.

I posted this a few days ago it was for a pve but its about the same in pvp say on low set when ever you can so a mesmer does not F*** you up when it comes to energy.

PM meh in game if you has any more Qz

and sry fot typos was trying to get this post done before i went to sleep

I Jonas I · Jul 09, 2008, 04:55 AM // 04:55

going a largely prot bar with WoH makes little sense for AB. just take ZB instead. The rest of that build looks fine.

High Moral · Jul 09, 2008, 05:22 AM // 05:22

Thanks JDryder for explaining..

Im set with the weapon, thank you tho

Rhamia Darigaz · Jul 09, 2008, 07:33 AM // 07:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tearz1993

Also, if you want to get better at monking, don't worry so much about your skills and worry more about buying all the cool looking weapon sets. At first it will be expensive, but you'll improve fast and soon you'll find yourself improving as a monk all-around.

fixed, then QFT

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tearz1993

By the way you aren't in the right place... should be Gladiator's Arena because a lot of the people here won't necessarily post the best info for PvP...

QFT

Tyla · Jul 09, 2008, 11:49 AM // 11:49

Quote:

bonders suck to much to keep up in a place like AB, maybe in RA but there are better builds.

No, they just suck.

Quote:

Second, patient spirit and RoF do basically the same thing ( quick cast heal) i use patient spirit instead of Rof, if you want more prot switcth it for Rof

No they don't. One mitigates damage and one heals.

Quote:

So ofcourse my first thought was to remove Guardian

Don't. Guardian is an extremely strong small prot in terms of damage mitigation.

Quote:

SoA reduces damage taken by 5 and Shielding hands by 14?

SoA Shielding
5 14
10 14
15 14

It adds up like that, per hit.

Quote:

And Spirit bond? Thats good, should i Pump that in?

Spirit Bond is basically a big prot for spikes. e.g Ele shrine.

Quote:

Conditions is a pain in AB, but there are so many of them so hardly dismiss condition makes a difference, you remove 1 and they got 1232 more on them.

Depending on the condition, if it's easily reapplyable crap (e.g Ranger with Apply Poison), don't bother.

Quote:

Should I remove holy vail? Or use it only on myself for migrain and other bad bad things? Or should I just hope I dont get them, and If I do, survive thru them? And on that spot put some Protection?

I personally like Cure Hex more in AB, but that's just me. Pre-veiling is always awesome though.

Quote:

Should dismiss conditions be removed to Purge? Even the recast is so long, it removes ALL condi

Nope.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tearz

By the way you aren't in the right place... should be Gladiator's Arena because a lot of the people here won't necessarily post the best info for PvP...

Too true.

JDRyder · Jul 09, 2008, 01:20 PM // 13:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tearz1993

By the way you aren't in the right place... should be Gladiator's Arena because a lot of the people here won't necessarily post the best info for PvP...

umm a few people from dR post here a lot :P

ender6 · Jul 10, 2008, 12:05 AM // 00:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by High Moral

In risk of this post getting deleted when I write long, I will first ask.
Where is the right forum to discuss PvP Monking? I have some question, suggestions etc etc. I have been monking in PvP for a long time but would like to throw some ideas around.

This is RA and AB and not "REAL" pvp as the elitist would say. Anyway..

Can I do that here? If the answer is yes I will start with the next post.

Sorry for this.

/High Moral

Since there is such much that needs fixing in this thread I think I will start by answering your initial question: You want Gladiator Arena(PvP); You don't want Campfire (PvE)

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/f...splay.php?f=30

As to your some of your other questions:

-SB + Gaurdian should always be on your bar when running a hybrid build in TA/RA/AB.
-RoF vs Patient Spirit (Do you require more dmg negation? Do you want more red-bar-go-up?) is a matter of preference.
-WoH vs ZB: if you go ZB i recommend you go full prot and get the max benefit, keep in mind ZB is harder to play.
-I recommend you take only Dark Escape or Return if you are going Mo/A. One or the other. I do see some monks who feel the need to run more than one stance/secondary defensive skill; you have prot skill for a reason.
-Holy Veil is a must IMO (bah to cure hex and the like in PvP) pre veil saves not only your ass but allows you to keep harmful hexes off of your teammates. Getting the hang of this can take time, but is worth learning.

*corrections:
-AB PUG group is NOT the hardest thing to monk in PvP.

Iron Monkey · Jul 10, 2008, 08:30 AM // 08:30

I use this

[prof=Mo/W hp=10+1+1 pp=8 df=10+1 tactics=8;OwEU00HC1KSaENgbaCE1EaRrFzFA].

You obviously need a shield for shield bash, but that's what you should have equipped most of the time (low energy set).

Works well so far. A good bunny thumper will wait for balanced stance to expire and then hit you, spirit bond can help you, as well as shield bash.

Mr Pink57 · Jul 30, 2008, 04:31 AM // 04:31

[prof=Mo/A;OwcT8Y4+NamQg4SrkYT77BLsBCA]

I've been using this with great success in AB lately.

pink

xDusT II · Jul 30, 2008, 08:35 AM // 08:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by uther argas

First of all dont remove guardian, its the best prot skill in the game.

Second, patient spirit and RoF do basically the same thing ( quick cast heal) i use patient spirit instead of Rof, if you want more prot switcth it for Rof

RoF is a bar stabiliser that is used to buy the time needed for actual prots/healing. Patient Spirit is a low cost quick cast bar pusher.

Quote:

Originally Posted by High Moral

I want more protect in it, its to much bar go up! So ofcourse my first thought was to remove Guardian (Which I somehow grown to like less and less, and it seems less and less useful. Its only fun to cast it on someone when a assassin shadowsteps in and it screws up his spike totaly).

I don't really get this. If you want more prot you shouldn't really be removing the workhorse skill for skirmish environments. The fact of the matter is, in most circumstances in low end pvp, guardian will probably be the most versatile and useful skill on your bar.

Quote:

Originally Posted by High Moral

But change Guardian for SoA? Would it be advisable? What about shielding hands? And I read SoA and Shielding hands but seriously, and this might sound stupid. WTF is the difference? SoA reduces damage taken by 5 and Shielding hands by 14?

Guardian and SoA usually compete for the same spot. Shield of Absorption reduces damage by 5 every time your ally takes damage. After taking 3 packets of damage, SoA will be outclassing Shielding Hands in terms of damage reduction. SoA is strongest when cast on a target that is likely to have a lot of the opponents focus, such as a flagger trying to cap. In most circumstances in AB's the minor skirmishes you'll face will not have the multitude of damage necessary to truly make SoA effective. The exceptions I can think of are when both players and NPC's are focussed on a specific target or against Minion walls who you really shouldn't be lingering around anyway. Guardian also has the added benefit of possibly preventing dangerous conditions from landing and protecting against interrupts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by High Moral

And Spirit bond? Thats good, should i Pump that in?

It's not really as necessary in AB than in other formats, but because you'll run into a lot of 16 specced players as well as the Elementalist NPC's, you'll find it triggering a lot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by High Moral

Should dismiss conditions be removed to Purge? Even the recast is so long, it removes ALL conditions.

If your only going to be removing conditions every 20 seconds you may as well not be removing them at all.
Keeping your damage dealers running at full capacity should be your primary priority if player bars are under control. Remove what conditions actually matter and conserve your energy if the conditions will be re-applied easily (such as apply poison). This may require a bit of awareness on your part if your team isn't talkative, just look for the animations for common condition causing skills (This applies to hexes as well) or have the opposition targeted while you wait for things to do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonas The Keen

going a largely prot bar with WoH makes little sense for AB. just take ZB instead. The rest of that build looks fine.

ZB is good in that it provides a solid bar pusher while not requiring any spec into healing prayers. While this means you'll end up with higher specced prots, ZB also forms the main point of failure of the build. If ZB is shut down in any way there's little you can do to push bars other than RoF and the secondary heals from condition removals. this is especially dangerous when you get hit with humsig, especially when you can't rely on a team to interrupt it for you.

As for secondary skills, I find it hard to pass up the defensive shadow steps like Return, especially in a pvp format that heavily supports mobility. The maps are also very shadow step friendly, with a lot of bridges and cliffs that can be used as shortcuts. Plus, snaring people with Return and a crippling weapon is quite fun.

Syron · Jul 30, 2008, 07:28 PM // 19:28

This is what i use in AB:

[RoF][Zealous Benediction][Shield of Absorption][Holy Veil][Dismiss Condition][Spirit Bond][Dark Escape][Return]

If i have many melees to support (i.e. removing blindness and cripple) I sometimes use:

[RoF][Zealous Benediction][Shield of Absorption][Holy Veil][Draw][Spirit Bond][Mending Touch][Return]

Of course you can always switch in guardian for SoA.

Another possible build:

[RoF][WoH][patient spirit][holy veil][dismiss][prot spirit][guardian][return]

pre-veiling is nice to catch fainthartedness at the nec shrine and big prots (SB, PS) are almost necessary to cap the ele shrine.
you don't need a speed buff (like dash) as you can shadowstep to your teammates that have speed buffs to keep up with them.

ctbear · Aug 01, 2008, 10:43 AM // 10:43

Basically what the above posters hv said

Your bar has too many healing skills
WoH, Patient spirit and Dismiss
drop patient spirit imo if ur more comfortable with rof

and yeah...weapon switch